Comments on: The basics of belief

By: Chase

Chase — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:51:24 +0000

Fun discussion. Age old, indeed. (Well, at least a few ages…)

Not that this is a proper response, but, we may embrace the mystery simply because it is there. Ignoring it would be like ignoring the pink elephant in the room. And if we toss out the mystery, what do we do with the mystics? The ones that seem to have embraced the mystery far better than you or I, and even united with it (Enlightenment, anyone?). If their explanation is the Divine…how do we refute that?

Just the points I ponder.

By: Clairebear

Clairebear — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 04:56:02 +0000

Hope and fear are very important emotions.
I mentioned the hope thing before. The reason why people believe there is no other way, or that religion cannot be proven wrong, is because we are scared of what that will mean for us. It scares people to think that this is it, and that all there is, is what we can see or physically prove.o
I dont know, I would rather know than have things shrouded in mystery. The reason I am intrigued by mystery is because I want to see whats behind the veil, not to stare astounded at it. I used to ask questions in church, only to be told that true belief doesnt need those answers. I took that to mean, we don’t know so stop asking.
I can’t believe in something that I can’t fully understand. It doesnt mean I will dismiss things willy nilly, but it does mean that I want to look closer at them and work them out.

By: Stephanie

Stephanie — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 02:34:26 +0000

Are we talking about that douche from The Pick Up Artist?

Yeah, yeah…I know we aren’t. I just felt like commenting…

By: sebastian

sebastian — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 00:51:46 +0000

Well, it is our responsibility to provide an alternative answer.

That’s basically what scientists and philosophers have done throughout the ages: ‘yes, that’s good… but… how about THIS?’

Whereupon they were either burnt at the stake OR it just so happened to be the right time, right place… and blam! Paradigm shift.

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it?

And do ‘they’ say it works for fear of what happens if they say otherwise?

By: Eric

Eric — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 00:45:34 +0000

Ask any believer of any religion if theirs “works.” They’ll say yes. It’s your point of view versus theirs. Always will be. Imagine God as an infinite being with a very strict set of rules for imposing on His creation. (My idealized Christian God is thus, ignoring The Bible, by and large). The world we live in now is as good as it is because of Him. Without what little intercessions He’s had on our behalf, the world would truly be shit. And science will never tell us otherwise. *hearty shrug*

By: sebastian

sebastian — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 23:24:27 +0000

Ah, sorry Eric, we were writing at the same time

Turns out I kind of half-answered you anyway:

Religion was originally about finding that story that weaves all the mysteries together. Astrology was all about making sense of something completely wild and unknown.

But somewhere along the line it became convoluted (we humans are pretty good at twisting useful things into potentially dangerous things…)

Not saying that all religion is bad. But something like yoga is probably better than presenting yourself unto God.

I understand what you’re getting at. But we’ve believed in Gods for at least as long as we’ve had recorded history. It might be time to look elsewhere, now that we’ve seen it doesn’t really work…?

By: sebastian

sebastian — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 23:19:16 +0000

Phew, finally here. Long day! (I only just finished cleaning the chocolate sauce from my chest hair…)

Ed — that’s a classic argument with modern-day religion: why is it so DIFFICULT? Religion, once upon a time, was simply about belief. And then sacrifice. Then it became politically incorrect to sacrifice virgins. But still, it’s so hard to get yourself a bit of Christ. You have to jump through hoops. Get in there with the priest. It’s beyond retarded. (I think I wrote about that in my religiousy entry, but I forget exactly.)

Yar Hez, I am aware of the different meanings. But as you say, just curious they attributed them all to the same stem word. Was disappointed to find that ‘myth’ comes from a different derivation though… damn. Would’ve been convenient

Yes, it’s all about trying to wrap it all up neatly inside a story. We call it… justification. We didn’t run recklessly down the stairs and fall; we tripped on a piece of clothing that our sibling left there…

Claire/Zoeo: it’s certainly a ‘convenience’ thing, or perhaps simply laziness. I refuse to admit it’s a survival trait though. Imagine how advanced the world might be today if religion hadn’t quashed the various prodigies that history has produced. I think it’s much more along the lines of: we like controlling humans. Offering forgiveness and taking away responsibility for your failures is a HUGE hook. Seriously… the greatest hook: atonement for all your misdeeds.

Throw in a bit of mystery, an unattainable… and voilá.

By: Eric

Eric — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 23:15:14 +0000

Mystery isn’t the polar opposite of exploration and science, it’s an impetus for them. As you state, then misdirect. You conflate mystery in a broad sense and the mysteries of religion, then pull them apart. Either way. What would you call modern religion other than an attempt to know the unknowable? To educate and explore, as much as we can, those mysteries? You can say that they’re attempts at mind-control, will-subversion, what have you, but that’s beside the point. People turn to religion, to the night sky, to find answers. It’s the mystery that compels them.

By: Mr. Apron

Mr. Apron — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 18:55:15 +0000

Was this post really written by the author of “The Penis Monologues?”

By: Ed Adams

Ed Adams — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:31:34 +0000

I’m not quite sure where you’re going with this, but I like that you’re thinking about thses things.

Oh, and this….

“It’s not that Christianity has been tried and found wanting; but has been found difficult and left untried.”
-G.K. Chesterton